Bug 2712 - Tools options Create Filter/processing Rules is incorrect
Summary: Tools options Create Filter/processing Rules is incorrect
Status: RESOLVED INVALID
Alias: None
Product: Claws Mail (GTK 2)
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version: 3.8.1
Hardware: PC FreeBSD
: P3 normal
Assignee: users
URL:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2012-07-25 11:08 UTC by Hans
Modified: 2012-07-26 14:07 UTC (History)
0 users

See Also:


Attachments

Description Hans 2012-07-25 11:08:18 UTC
menu titles are quite confusing

I did not find my existing rules is what brought me here.

This Titles better say "Manage Filter/Processing Rules" (or similar) instead of create.

As it is, it is hard to find already existing rules for editing, it is not obvious that CREATE accesses existing rules

then the submenu could be better adapted to that 

Automatic rules instead Automatically

for the others I have no good idea at this moment but 
Manage Rules
 .. by Subject

is incorrect I guess, may be

Manage Rules
 ... Automatic Rules
 ... based on Subject

sounds better?
Comment 1 Andrej Kacian 2012-07-25 12:44:25 UTC
The menu option is named correctly. It allows you to create a rule based on currently selected message (it is also available when right-clicking a message in summary view).

But perhaps it should be moved from Tools menu to Message menu, since it operates on current message, as mentioned.
Comment 2 Hans 2012-07-26 07:56:52 UTC
not entirely correct

sure it creates but it also gives you access to already existing rules

indeed it seems to be the ONLY option to get access to existing rules, I spent a "lot of time" :) figuring out how to get there

therefor I made the suggestion to give it a clearer name
Comment 3 Paul 2012-07-26 08:12:22 UTC
/Configuration/Filtering
/Configuration/Pre-processing
/Configuration/Post-processing

Context menu of a folder, /Processing

http://www.claws-mail.org/manual/claws-mail-manual.html#handling_filters
Comment 4 Hans 2012-07-26 08:35:13 UTC
well, none of them shows up with my existing rules created by Create Rule

even if it worked, just another inconsistency, answer it for yourself, why having two options, with different names, giving access to the same procedure? It's confusing.

you could eliminate one of them and give it a more comprehensive name
Comment 5 Paul 2012-07-26 08:57:10 UTC
> well, none of them shows up with my existing rules 
> created by Create Rule

Maybe if you were a bit more explicit with your description, (e.g. there is no 'Create Rule' menu item), then your mistake could be explained to you.

> even if it worked, just another inconsistency, answer it 
> for yourself, why having two options, with different names, 
> giving access to the same procedure? It's confusing.

It was decided long ago, long before you showed up, that this was none of these things that you claim. They are actually 2 different procedures - one creates a filter rule from the selected message, the other doesn't.

> you could eliminate one of them and give it a more 
> comprehensive name

See above.
Comment 6 Hans 2012-07-26 09:23:07 UTC
please stop picking on me, I do not need lecture, if you look with objective eyes you will see exactly the same I see

if it is not inconsistency then it is redundancy what both leads to confusion, that's the point, not me not you or your work

when I spend my time here it is because I like the program, not to fight with somebody ... and my intention is trying to make it better

so it does not help when you are looking with blinders onto something, unless the spot it is the only thing you want to see

but if my input is not desired here, just say it and I hold my peace 

until then back to the point:

it is not exactly correct what you say, on MY version it is this what I see:

both options, either Tools=>Create or Config=>Filter give access to the exact same options box, what permits to CREATE a rule

nevertheless, Tools=>CREATE gives me access to rules created before 

Config=Filter _DOES_NOT_ give me access to existing rules, but I can CREATE rules

so BOTH let me create - you say only one creates

only one let me access already created rules, what is for me here the CREATE option

and that seems not to be confusing only to me, you yourself are pretty confused, because it is not like you say ... :)
Comment 7 wwp 2012-07-26 09:34:20 UTC
er.. who on Earth has objective eyes? You? By definition, you show your own subjectivity, apparently a strong one. Not sure I share 100% of your opinions (even if some ones you reported were pertinent). You're just discovering a new applicatio, you should accept this learning curve and accept the differences, instead of attempting to format CM to the way other applications you used before.
Comment 8 Andrej Kacian 2012-07-26 09:53:01 UTC
> so BOTH let me create - you say only one creates
> 
> only one let me access already created rules, what is for me here the CREATE option

With all due respect, Hans, you're wrong here - both mentioned menu options open up the same filter configuration dialog with existing rules visible, and both allow you to create new rules, as well as manage existing ones.

The difference is that one of them saves you some work by preparing condition part of a new filter rule for you to finish. Please do not try to argue otherwise, most of us have been using this feature for years, so it's a bit awkward when you try to convince us that it doesn't work.
Comment 9 Hans 2012-07-26 10:03:27 UTC
I'm not trying to convince you, better you believe it is so (here), so step by step:

I create a processing rule with Tools=>Create proc.Rule=>on From:

rule created, works, I go to the mailbox and desired msgs are moved into the folder I configured

Now, you say I can access the rule for editing or deleting by going to Config==> Pre-Processing Rules

negative, nothing there, the box is empty, also Filter and post-proc., no rule in either of them

The Only way I can get to the created rule is, Tools=>Create Proc Rule=>on FROM:

there it is, all formerly created rules are there
Comment 10 Colin Leroy 2012-07-26 10:18:00 UTC
Hi,

Processing rules are per-folder and you can find them back right-clicking on the folder.
Comment 11 Hans 2012-07-26 10:29:05 UTC
the only option I see when right-clicking on the folder is "Executing Processing rules"

when I click the menu option "Processing" it is empty

but since I get used to double check, I tried again and yo... now they are there

the rules are not showing up on first click when using right_click_folder=>Processing

but still Config=Filter|Pre|Post give me nothing, either first nor second click
Comment 12 Brian Morrison 2012-07-26 12:16:43 UTC
Hans, I think you're not looking in the correct place for the rules you have created.

Filtering and processing are separate, you won't see filtering rules in the list of processing rules.

Filtering is run on the inbox whereas processing works on individual folders for rules created per-folder and globally for processing rules created from the Tools and Configuration menus. With these you can choose whether the rules are run before the folder rules or after them.

You will not see all the rules you have created in any one dialog box, the system is not designed to work that way because the way it is designed is more flexible.
Comment 13 Hans 2012-07-26 12:57:42 UTC
of course i know that filter and proc rules are different ones

lets pick one for now

I created a Proc.Rule with Tools=>Create=>by Sender From:

good?

If I understand your former responses, I should access this rule later to edit, disable or delete by Config=>Pre-Processing

that is not the case, it is empty
Comment 14 Colin Leroy 2012-07-26 13:03:39 UTC
No. 
Pre-processing rules are executed before processing rules, and are shared across folders while processing rules are per-folder.

Post-processing rules are executed after processing rules, and are shared across folders.

Filtering rules are executed when retrieving mails, while *processing rules are executed when entering folders.

All af this is documented in the user manual that you can find online at http://www.claws-mail.org/documentation.php and offline using Help/Manual.
Comment 15 Hans 2012-07-26 13:18:02 UTC
ok, first clear answer

and now we can come back to where I started this PR

the TITLE of Tools=>Create Filter ... is incorrect
(as well as Create Proc.Rule)

because it does not only create but ALSO gives access to the created filters or rules

so my suggestion was to change this title into something more obvious like 

[Manage] Filter Rules
and 
[Manage] Process Rules

that was all
Comment 16 Andrej Kacian 2012-07-26 13:52:57 UTC
No. The menu items are named appropriately. If you do not like it, feel free to change it in your local copy of Claws Mail, and you're even welcome to distribute such changed copy further (while abiding to GPLv3).

If you wish to discuss this further, please take it to Users mailing list. Bugzilla is not suitable for such discussions.

Thanks.
Comment 17 Brian Morrison 2012-07-26 14:07:47 UTC
>I created a Proc.Rule with Tools=>Create=>by Sender From:
>
>good?
>
>If I understand your former responses, I should access this rule later to edit,
>disable or delete by Config=>Pre-Processing
>
>that is not the case, it is empty

Yes it will be, because processing rules created in this way are applied to the folder which is selected at the time you create the rule, you will find them by right clicking the folder you were in and selecting Processing Rules from the context menu.

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